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this week's episode of the skeptics own

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podcast is dedicated to the memory of

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Esther Tran Alden a strong advocate of

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reason in Sydney and a vaccination and

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of the science underpinning in welcome

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to the sceptic zone the podcast from

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Australia for science and reason

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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hello and welcome to the skeptic Zone

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podcast episode number 574 for the 13th

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of October 2019 reaches Saunders here

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with you from Sydney Australia coming up

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on this week's show the skeptic zone on

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the road we go to the offices of choice

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magazine the consumer advocate choice

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and the Australian skeptics have had a

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long and interesting relationship over

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the years sort of cross-pollination

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because you could say in a sort of a way

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choice magazine is sort of like the

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skeptics and they look out for dodgy and

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shonky and wonky products consumer

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products and they publish a magazine

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called choice and every year they award

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the shonky Awards which is kind of sort

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of like the Australian skeptics bent

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spoon award coming up actually in

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December anyway we head to the choice

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magazine presentation and find out more

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about this year's shonky and dodgy

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products that you should avoid

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after that it's Trish and chips with

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Trish Shan where Maynard interviews

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Trish about the latest developments in

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stroke treatment a bit of science

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injected into the sceptic zone then

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another update from susan gerbic from

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guerrilla skepticism on wikipedia just a

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quick update to see what's happening

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there and around off the show i chat to

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dr. Fiona fiddler from the University of

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Melbourne who scientifically

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investigates science and she'll be

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talking at skeptic on 2019 in December

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actually there's not too much for me to

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say here at the introduction to the show

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this week so yes it's time for me to run

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downstairs where there's cats oh she's

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gone see the trouble is I'm recording

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this in the morning and they're sitting

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in here waiting for me to get up run

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downstairs and give them some food

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mm-hmm okay when I run downstairs and

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give the cats their food their breakfast

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I hope you enjoy the skeptic sir

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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Thursday the 10th of October 2019

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so the awarding of the annual shonky

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choice magazine in the Australian

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skeptics have had a long and happy

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Association in 2010 choice magazine

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awarded a shonky to the Power Balance

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wristband a product the Australian

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skeptics had debunked in 2009

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[Music]

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the press release reads as follows

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consumer advocate choice has announced

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its 14th annual shock ease singling out

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chunky fringes food and finance products

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for its yearly dishonor choices job is

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to stand up against companies doing the

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wrong thing the Shan Keys draw upon our

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unique testing reviews and advocacy to

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help you identify the worst of the worst

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in a time of fake reviews cash for

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comment salespeople and lobbyists

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everywhere it's more important than ever

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that independent voices tell the truth

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says choice CEO Allen Kirkland

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the 2019 chunkies are Kogan four dodgy

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customer care Medibank basic cover

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health insurance for failing the basics

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ikea ned killed fridge for failing

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energy tests and being bad at doing its

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one job a MP superannuation for ruined

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retirements freedom food Expo crunch for

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telling us a bag of sugar is healthy and

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the pet insurance bad insurance riddled

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with exclusions Tim men demand I went

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along to the shonky ceremony and spoke

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to some of the choice representatives

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about dodgy products

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[Music]

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we're in one of the testing labs here at

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choice magazine and they're having a

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test of the freedom foods X Oh crunch

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it's Chris Barnes from choices XO XO

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crunch yes basically you can see what's

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in front of you you can see the cereal

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and you can see a massive sugar and to

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be quite honest there's not a lot of

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difference between the two so yes that's

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right we've got the display here we've

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got the bowl of cereal ready to go

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looking very crunchy and a huge bowl of

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sugar we've got lots of kids here

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willing to test the product is that

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right okay and the idea is of course

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that this this thing is mostly um mostly

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sugar isn't it well not mostly sugar who

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do we have here hi my name is Linda I'm

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the food policy expert at choice and

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today we're awarding a strong key to

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freedom foods which positions itself as

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a nutritious healthy kids food but it's

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actually 22% added sugar that's a lot

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and as the display there shows but the

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the packaging is very kid-friendly isn't

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it this little owl and it looks very

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impeding and freedom food I mean how

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could you go wrong absolutely and all of

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the autumnal colors are very inviting

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we've got a lot of claims on the front

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like a fun and nutritious snack eat well

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today feel better tomorrow there's a lot

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of information that kind of could lead

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you to believe that it's a really

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nutritious food but unfortunately it is

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a quieter sugary cereal and we think

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that that's pretty misleading also just

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caught my eye here right on the top of

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the package we've got things that would

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appeal to a certain percentage of the

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the market they're gluten free wheat

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free and not free

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look those claims are do you need to be

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on the pack for people with allergies

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and intolerances I think that well

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that's really really relevant the sugary

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products should not be positioned at the

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health food section of the supermarket

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so a lot of the time you do find your

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gluten free or wheat free you're not

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free products in the health food section

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but it's easy to confuse a product that

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is free from those allergens with a

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product that you know is sugar

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and free from those allergies so we just

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want to make sure that there's no

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confusion there for consumers and of

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course it says their source of fiber

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with the goodness of three grains so

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it's all positive and this is really

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great for the kids in the morning that's

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right well it sounds it sounds too good

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to be true and it is so it says good for

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you no preservatives low salt low fat

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it's got everything even if no nasties

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no GMO I mean they're really going on

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every bandwagon they could possibly get

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on this package that's right the only

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thing that they're not advertising is

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they're high sugar content just back

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with a crisp on Z and use you're saying

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that in the last little while there's

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nothing like the good old Power Balance

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or magical claims come across the desk

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of choice that's right I mean look

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there's always garbage like that out

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there as you well know and we've looked

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at the power balance before the geo

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cleanse they're these sort of magic

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devices that claim to you know fix you

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or fix your house or fix your power

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consumption or whatever we haven't put a

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particular spotlight on anything like

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that just recently but they're always

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out there you know I'm sure your

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audience knows full well turtle look out

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for the moon like static you point at

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them and have a laugh but unfortunately

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there are people out there who believe

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them and buy them and yeah and yeah

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there's such ripoffs

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no absolutely yeah in fact you might be

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interested to know that just in the last

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week we've added to our bent spoon

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nominations for this year Aldi

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supermarkets for selling candles

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oh yes yes this just popped up on my

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radar just in the last couple of days

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look I had ear candles in there and it's

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it's disappointing isn't it here I've

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been waiting Aldys not to plug them over

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any anyone else put their yeah they're a

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good supermarket yeah they provide a

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really valuable

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you know service yeah with low-priced

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products and all the rest of it

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and lots of people shop there and you

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kind of expect it a company like that is

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going to have this sense just stay away

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from you know from nonsense like year

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candles yeah you know what would

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something like a brand of ear candles

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fall within Choice purview or is that

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I think we wouldn't look at a particular

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brand we would look at here candles as a

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whole if we saw that there was a

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particular activity in the market you

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know maybe someone was pushing something

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really hard or you know you were seeing

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in celebrity endorsements leaving

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putting a spotlight on particular

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products that then you might come to it

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yeah and the products like that are

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always out there unfortunately and you

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know and we have to spend our energy

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where it's yeah where it's best spent

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not always in that sort of area I know I

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agree I agree but one of the things

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that's concerned us for a while I mean

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it's bad enough to see them in Aldi but

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for years now they've been available in

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their pharmacies way exactly and you go

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to a pharmacy for medicine after all and

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you know and you know let's be honest my

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dad was a pharmacist so I know full well

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how far must operate the always thought

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you know chocolate stands yeah perfumes

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and all the rest of it yeah and that's

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one of the ways that they make a living

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and that's fair enough but you expect

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there to be you know what you went from

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medicinal and medical and you know

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pharmacological products you expect them

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to be all above the board and you know

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documented and proven and medically

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valid you know so dakotas at the same

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place where you you're buying you know

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serious medications and find the ear

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candles and things on the shelf as well

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naturally people are going to put trust

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in that I don't know if you've caught up

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with the fact that one of our sister

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organizations in the states is suing

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Walmart I think it is amongst others for

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selling homeopathy because homeopathy is

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such a blatant ripoff and something that

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blatantly doesn't work yeah it's an

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interesting tactic I know and well I

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mean again you go into pharmacies and

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see how many Pathak products as well I

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went for it myself here I bought a

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product that I thought was the real deal

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and Annika cream took it home read the

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label carefully and realized it was a

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homeopathic Arnica cream and you know in

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other words had you know zeros here or

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almost zero Annika actually in it which

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is a bit disappointing you know even

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someone like me who usually reads the

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labels can can fall for it I mean but

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there will be people out there who'll

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pick it up look oh homeopathy great

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that's supposed to be wonderful I'll get

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that because again you're buying it in a

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pharmacy you think that it's the real

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deal yes that's the problem of course of

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course the average punter in the street

275
00:11:57,269 --> 00:11:55,209
is going to think what they buy in a

276
00:11:59,040 --> 00:11:57,279
pharmacy is the real deal well we're

277
00:12:01,439 --> 00:11:59,050
still on the same page I think the the

278
00:12:04,199 --> 00:12:01,449
skeptic so video and choice magazine

279
00:12:06,509 --> 00:12:04,209
thank you for helping us out today

280
00:12:08,009 --> 00:12:06,519
having a look around I think Tim Mendham

281
00:12:10,490 --> 00:12:08,019
and I will pop around see a few more of

282
00:12:13,769 --> 00:12:10,500
these wonderful displays no worries

283
00:12:16,019 --> 00:12:13,779
we're in another section now and we have

284
00:12:17,970 --> 00:12:16,029
a gaping fridge in front of us and

285
00:12:19,829 --> 00:12:17,980
there's a problem with this fridge and

286
00:12:22,620 --> 00:12:19,839
this concerns us because it's to do with

287
00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:22,630
energy it's consuming more energy than

288
00:12:26,220 --> 00:12:23,170
it should

289
00:12:27,780 --> 00:12:26,230
it is indeed consuming more energy than

290
00:12:29,879 --> 00:12:27,790
it is allowed to it than it has claimed

291
00:12:32,490 --> 00:12:29,889
and that it is allowed to then is

292
00:12:33,930 --> 00:12:32,500
allowed to well from what they claimed

293
00:12:36,990 --> 00:12:33,940
there is a little bit of variation

294
00:12:39,150 --> 00:12:37,000
allowed but there's a limit on how much

295
00:12:41,009 --> 00:12:39,160
that variation can be so it can only be

296
00:12:43,410 --> 00:12:41,019
up to seven and a half percent more than

297
00:12:45,870 --> 00:12:43,420
they have claimed and this is well over

298
00:12:48,540 --> 00:12:45,880
8% right well I mean if enough people

299
00:12:51,210 --> 00:12:48,550
had these fridges it would it's just

300
00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:51,220
burning up energy that we and this day

301
00:12:54,180 --> 00:12:52,930
and age we simply don't need extra

302
00:12:56,550 --> 00:12:54,190
energy being burn up for no reason

303
00:12:59,009 --> 00:12:56,560
that's correct and that's why when the

304
00:13:02,100 --> 00:12:59,019
shonky I guess that and the fact that it

305
00:13:03,509 --> 00:13:02,110
is really a bad well let's have a closed

306
00:13:04,590 --> 00:13:03,519
look now I'm just walking over to the

307
00:13:06,569 --> 00:13:04,600
fridge now and there's the freezer

308
00:13:09,180 --> 00:13:06,579
section all the some pizzas inside I

309
00:13:11,850 --> 00:13:09,190
mean it looks like a fridge you know I

310
00:13:13,410 --> 00:13:11,860
mean from just outward appearances but

311
00:13:17,370 --> 00:13:13,420
how would appearances can be deceiving

312
00:13:18,540 --> 00:13:17,380
they certainly can be and that's one

313
00:13:19,949 --> 00:13:18,550
thing that's very important with the

314
00:13:23,970 --> 00:13:19,959
fridge is that it does a good job of

315
00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:23,980
keeping you food fresh now we've found

316
00:13:27,929 --> 00:13:26,050
with this fridge it performs so badly

317
00:13:29,550 --> 00:13:27,939
that not only you're going to be paying

318
00:13:31,379 --> 00:13:29,560
through the nose for the extra energy

319
00:13:33,929 --> 00:13:31,389
you're also going to be paying extra for

320
00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:33,939
replacing all the spoiled food in it oh

321
00:13:38,009 --> 00:13:36,490
and that's an ongoing cost for the life

322
00:13:39,420 --> 00:13:38,019
of the appliance that's interesting is

323
00:13:41,610 --> 00:13:39,430
that the seals or have you discovered

324
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:41,620
exactly what's going on

325
00:13:47,900 --> 00:13:45,010
it's it just performs really badly right

326
00:13:50,250 --> 00:13:47,910
that's not the seals it's more about the

327
00:13:52,980 --> 00:13:50,260
large temperature fluctuations

328
00:13:55,890 --> 00:13:52,990
particularly in the freezer and poor

329
00:13:58,380 --> 00:13:55,900
response to changes in outside ambient

330
00:14:00,390 --> 00:13:58,390
temperature well folks I mean I like

331
00:14:02,460 --> 00:14:00,400
going to Ikea myself every now and then

332
00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:02,470
but I think I'll steer clear of this

333
00:14:10,130 --> 00:14:03,850
particular fridge thank you very much

334
00:14:15,270 --> 00:14:13,560
health-insurance Medibank we're in the

335
00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:15,280
room now to discuss the health insurance

336
00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:17,170
this is a big issue for us to Mendham

337
00:14:21,030 --> 00:14:18,970
from the Australian skeptics because we

338
00:14:24,300 --> 00:14:21,040
did a story not long ago you did a story

339
00:14:26,910 --> 00:14:24,310
about some of the quackery that health

340
00:14:28,770 --> 00:14:26,920
companies cover we're sort of supporting

341
00:14:30,420 --> 00:14:28,780
actually where this was before the the

342
00:14:32,820 --> 00:14:30,430
government action or is it in action at

343
00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:32,830
the moment that to restrict what the

344
00:14:36,690 --> 00:14:35,050
health funds can support so we found

345
00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:36,700
actually a major investigation a number

346
00:14:41,250 --> 00:14:38,050
of years ago that there was only one

347
00:14:43,710 --> 00:14:41,260
health fund that was not supporting whoo

348
00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:43,720
you know instead of unproven alternative

349
00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:44,890
medicine and that was the doctor self

350
00:14:48,450 --> 00:14:47,410
fund surprisingly but I mean so

351
00:14:50,730 --> 00:14:48,460
therefore was saying this sort of thing

352
00:14:52,410 --> 00:14:50,740
is aware even then when the actual

353
00:14:53,790 --> 00:14:52,420
product is not very good and the

354
00:14:55,020 --> 00:14:53,800
question is this was all about you know

355
00:14:57,900 --> 00:14:55,030
what they were supporting but this is a

356
00:14:58,380 --> 00:14:57,910
different issue wasn't it so who do we

357
00:15:01,710 --> 00:14:58,390
have here

358
00:15:03,810 --> 00:15:01,720
my name is Jodie Jodie and Dean and the

359
00:15:06,660 --> 00:15:03,820
story was or the story is that this

360
00:15:08,220 --> 00:15:06,670
Medibank this particular coverage

361
00:15:10,110 --> 00:15:08,230
they're offering really isn't worth a

362
00:15:12,090 --> 00:15:10,120
cracker is it yeah that's correct it's

363
00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:12,100
quite a basic level of cover and won't

364
00:15:15,630 --> 00:15:13,330
give you much more than what you get

365
00:15:17,070 --> 00:15:15,640
from the public system that's that's

366
00:15:19,590 --> 00:15:17,080
that's just frightening because I

367
00:15:22,020 --> 00:15:19,600
remember a 10 12 years ago we were all

368
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:22,030
heavily encouraged to take up private

369
00:15:25,380 --> 00:15:24,010
insurance and the deadline is coming and

370
00:15:27,930 --> 00:15:25,390
you must take it up you must take it up

371
00:15:30,540 --> 00:15:27,940
and now that the news is that people are

372
00:15:31,980 --> 00:15:30,550
leaving it in droves yeah that's right a

373
00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:31,990
lot of people are loading in it because

374
00:15:35,910 --> 00:15:33,490
it becomes more expensive every year

375
00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:35,920
every year yeah yeah and what was one of

376
00:15:40,470 --> 00:15:37,170
the main problems with this particular

377
00:15:41,970 --> 00:15:40,480
coverage so this covers very little the

378
00:15:44,220 --> 00:15:41,980
list of exclusions is probably as long

379
00:15:46,290 --> 00:15:44,230
as my arm and it's also quite expensive

380
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:46,300
when this is a basic level of cover

381
00:15:49,650 --> 00:15:48,250
there are actually cheaper policies

382
00:15:51,870 --> 00:15:49,660
available which are at the Bronze level

383
00:15:52,759 --> 00:15:51,880
which covers a lot more so not only does

384
00:15:55,220 --> 00:15:52,769
that cover very

385
00:15:56,689 --> 00:15:55,230
it also cost a lot right and I think

386
00:15:58,069 --> 00:15:56,699
some other people are finding if they

387
00:16:00,559 --> 00:15:58,079
just save their money in a separate

388
00:16:03,199 --> 00:16:00,569
account for medical reasons he can often

389
00:16:04,970 --> 00:16:03,209
often do better than that we've always

390
00:16:06,769 --> 00:16:04,980
got our eye and we're always had a

391
00:16:08,299 --> 00:16:06,779
problem with what we call the junk

392
00:16:10,729 --> 00:16:08,309
insurance policies which is what this

393
00:16:12,199 --> 00:16:10,739
policy is because essentially it doesn't

394
00:16:14,389 --> 00:16:12,209
provide any more cover than the public

395
00:16:15,829 --> 00:16:14,399
system so yeah yeah yeah that's one

396
00:16:17,929 --> 00:16:15,839
thing for our international listeners

397
00:16:20,869 --> 00:16:17,939
there is a quite a decent coverage of

398
00:16:22,999 --> 00:16:20,879
health in this country public health you

399
00:16:25,910 --> 00:16:23,009
know you can run up to a doctor and they

400
00:16:27,319 --> 00:16:25,920
like they hopefully fix you up without

401
00:16:30,319 --> 00:16:27,329
breaking the bank

402
00:16:33,949 --> 00:16:30,329
and and so this thing here is basically

403
00:16:36,199 --> 00:16:33,959
a ripoff to use that old term yeah

404
00:16:39,199 --> 00:16:36,209
basically okay well thank you very much

405
00:16:40,939 --> 00:16:39,209
thank you and we've come outside and

406
00:16:42,650 --> 00:16:40,949
there are dogs everywhere folks and

407
00:16:45,439 --> 00:16:42,660
they're looking quite healthy to me but

408
00:16:47,179 --> 00:16:45,449
but not all dogs are always healthy and

409
00:16:49,669 --> 00:16:47,189
who do we have here that's Patrick vary

410
00:16:51,619 --> 00:16:49,679
from choice and what's what's the point

411
00:16:53,479 --> 00:16:51,629
of all these dogs nipping at their heels

412
00:16:55,819 --> 00:16:53,489
yeah we've got dogs outside the choice

413
00:16:57,919 --> 00:16:55,829
office today because today rewarded the

414
00:17:00,289 --> 00:16:57,929
entire pet insurance industry a shonky

415
00:17:02,150 --> 00:17:00,299
award pet insurance products are

416
00:17:04,789 --> 00:17:02,160
terribly poor value and we've reviewed

417
00:17:09,409 --> 00:17:04,799
86 policies and can't recommend a single

418
00:17:11,510 --> 00:17:09,419
one wow that's something I mean I for

419
00:17:13,429 --> 00:17:11,520
the listeners know we've got a couple of

420
00:17:15,769 --> 00:17:13,439
skeptics owned cats and the skeptics own

421
00:17:17,569 --> 00:17:15,779
studio and I've cross my mind to get

422
00:17:19,370 --> 00:17:17,579
insurance for them because things happen

423
00:17:22,639 --> 00:17:19,380
but you're saying that it's really a

424
00:17:24,289 --> 00:17:22,649
waste of money absolutely we haven't we

425
00:17:26,389 --> 00:17:24,299
can't recommend a single product what we

426
00:17:28,039 --> 00:17:26,399
recommend to people actually is to have

427
00:17:29,750 --> 00:17:28,049
a pool of their own money and use that

428
00:17:31,580 --> 00:17:29,760
as an insurance product and rather than

429
00:17:34,010 --> 00:17:31,590
going through dodgy insurance providers

430
00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:34,020
yeah yeah we've there's a number of

431
00:17:37,789 --> 00:17:35,370
problems that we've found a lot of them

432
00:17:39,830 --> 00:17:37,799
is that the complex PDS product

433
00:17:43,570 --> 00:17:39,840
disclosure statements with terms that

434
00:17:46,030 --> 00:17:43,580
have really unfair across the board

435
00:17:48,190 --> 00:17:46,040
that's that's just that's too bad I mean

436
00:17:49,810 --> 00:17:48,200
because pet lovers love their pets and

437
00:17:55,470 --> 00:17:49,820
all right lo here's one and what do you

438
00:17:58,210 --> 00:17:55,480
think of the insurance hello hello Jason

439
00:18:00,220 --> 00:17:58,220
and that's a healthy dog pet lovers love

440
00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:00,230
their pets and of course they will do

441
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:02,210
anything they'll spend lots of money if

442
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:04,010
they think they're to help their pets

443
00:18:07,780 --> 00:18:06,170
they'll walk out for insurance right and

444
00:18:09,460 --> 00:18:07,790
the insurance companies really like prey

445
00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:09,470
on that emotional vulnerability and

446
00:18:14,230 --> 00:18:12,530
Australians love for pets and that's

447
00:18:15,970 --> 00:18:14,240
really how they work in terms of their

448
00:18:19,270 --> 00:18:15,980
marketing but an actual fact that is

449
00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:19,280
terribly poor value one such example is

450
00:18:24,310 --> 00:18:22,370
which is very hollow Matic is that if

451
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:24,320
you for most pet insurance contracts

452
00:18:29,260 --> 00:18:26,810
if your pet contracts an illness for

453
00:18:31,210 --> 00:18:29,270
which a vaccine exists even though

454
00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:31,220
they're vaccinated they're not protected

455
00:18:37,570 --> 00:18:34,370
which seems particularly perverse what

456
00:18:39,790 --> 00:18:37,580
yeah I know it's very strange and

457
00:18:42,070 --> 00:18:39,800
there's other examples where if your pet

458
00:18:43,570 --> 00:18:42,080
has a pre-existing condition you can't

459
00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:43,580
then look across and find another pet

460
00:18:46,300 --> 00:18:45,050
insurance contract you're locked into

461
00:18:48,730 --> 00:18:46,310
that contracts

462
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:48,740
it's very onerous now this whole thing

463
00:18:55,330 --> 00:18:51,890
Tim Mendham seems a bit rough to me ruff

464
00:18:57,580 --> 00:18:55,340
yes thank you thank you very much thank

465
00:18:59,560 --> 00:18:57,590
you thank you to all the doggies yes and

466
00:19:01,060 --> 00:18:59,570
the papers flying papers flying and

467
00:19:04,990 --> 00:19:01,070
we've got a sausage dog over there who's

468
00:19:05,790 --> 00:19:05,000
got a couple of hello are you a healthy

469
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:05,800
dog

470
00:19:09,690 --> 00:19:06,250
[Music]

471
00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:09,700
[Laughter]

472
00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:17,050
or more information about choice

473
00:19:23,630 --> 00:19:21,370
magazine in the shonky Awards its www.hs

474
00:19:26,470 --> 00:19:23,640
calm day you

475
00:19:29,300 --> 00:19:26,480
[Music]

476
00:19:38,450 --> 00:19:29,310
[Laughter]

477
00:19:45,950 --> 00:19:41,860
[Music]

478
00:19:49,010 --> 00:19:45,960
dr. Harriet Hall MD no into thousands as

479
00:19:52,130 --> 00:19:49,020
the skeptic a retired family physician

480
00:19:54,169 --> 00:19:52,140
and former Air Force flight surgeon she

481
00:19:55,870 --> 00:19:54,179
writes about medicine so-called

482
00:19:59,770 --> 00:19:55,880
complementary and alternative medicine

483
00:20:02,840 --> 00:19:59,780
science pakery and critical thinking

484
00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:02,850
Harriet now has a free course a series

485
00:20:08,450 --> 00:20:05,130
of 10 video lectures on science-based

486
00:20:10,490 --> 00:20:08,460
medicine and alternative medicine the

487
00:20:12,590 --> 00:20:10,500
videos and an accompanying course guide

488
00:20:17,450 --> 00:20:12,600
can be found by following the link at

489
00:20:22,030 --> 00:20:17,460
skip doc info or by visiting web Randi's

490
00:20:25,780 --> 00:20:22,040
org slash educational - modules dot

491
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:25,790
html' topics covered in the series our

492
00:20:29,330 --> 00:20:28,050
science-based medicine vs.

493
00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:29,340
evidence-based medicine

494
00:20:36,350 --> 00:20:33,050
what is cam chiropractic acupuncture

495
00:20:39,110 --> 00:20:36,360
homeopathy naturopathy and herbal

496
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:39,120
medicine energy medicine miscellaneous

497
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:41,850
alternatives pitfalls in research and

498
00:20:48,740 --> 00:20:44,850
science based medicine in the media and

499
00:20:51,169 --> 00:20:48,750
politics harriet covers each topic in a

500
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:51,179
matter-of-fact no-nonsense way that

501
00:20:56,540 --> 00:20:54,450
shorter educate and entertain skeptic

502
00:21:07,730 --> 00:20:56,550
dot info

503
00:21:07,740 --> 00:21:10,940
[Music]

504
00:21:28,529 --> 00:21:20,340
hmm let's have some Trish and chips is

505
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:28,539
Trish han will hear it skeptics in the

506
00:21:33,509 --> 00:21:31,090
pub tonight we're onto a big one tonight

507
00:21:35,249 --> 00:21:33,519
it's all about stroke not something I

508
00:21:36,690 --> 00:21:35,259
know about but is it the third biggest

509
00:21:38,460 --> 00:21:36,700
killer Trish you're talking about a lot

510
00:21:40,379 --> 00:21:38,470
where strokes it on the cancer heart

511
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:40,389
attack accident thing of killing people

512
00:21:44,339 --> 00:21:42,129
yeah so it kills more women than breast

513
00:21:46,830 --> 00:21:44,349
cancer and more men and prostate cancer

514
00:21:48,930 --> 00:21:46,840
it's pretty high and is there any one

515
00:21:50,639 --> 00:21:48,940
single cause is anything we're doing

516
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:50,649
that makes us have a stroke is there any

517
00:21:54,779 --> 00:21:52,330
one thing that is yours usually the big

518
00:21:59,519 --> 00:21:54,789
risk factor as multiple risk factors

519
00:22:01,529 --> 00:21:59,529
obviously things like immobility you

520
00:22:03,149 --> 00:22:01,539
know because obviously DVT can make

521
00:22:04,919 --> 00:22:03,159
their way they often make the way to the

522
00:22:06,930 --> 00:22:04,929
lung but they can obviously go to the

523
00:22:07,799 --> 00:22:06,940
brain as well there are a few other risk

524
00:22:09,389 --> 00:22:07,809
factors as well like if you've got

525
00:22:11,009 --> 00:22:09,399
certain cardiac conditions in fact one

526
00:22:13,529 --> 00:22:11,019
of the ones I personally have as well

527
00:22:14,789 --> 00:22:13,539
so if your heart is not pumping the way

528
00:22:16,019 --> 00:22:14,799
it should then you can get these blood

529
00:22:19,229 --> 00:22:16,029
clots that form in the heart and then

530
00:22:21,419 --> 00:22:19,239
whack straight up to the brain there are

531
00:22:23,930 --> 00:22:21,429
also conditions such as having a hole in

532
00:22:26,369 --> 00:22:23,940
the heart that can increase risk as well

533
00:22:28,710 --> 00:22:26,379
and then just other lifestyle factors as

534
00:22:30,599 --> 00:22:28,720
well well I was always told smoking is a

535
00:22:32,489 --> 00:22:30,609
huge one for stroke now why is that what

536
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:32,499
does it do that like alcohol or other

537
00:22:38,249 --> 00:22:34,210
stuff doesn't do what why is stroking a

538
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:38,259
big one stroking wise wise smoking lead

539
00:22:42,539 --> 00:22:40,330
to stroking well as he smoking is a

540
00:22:45,779 --> 00:22:42,549
generally very very bad for you like in

541
00:22:47,639 --> 00:22:45,789
general isn't it it's it's one of these

542
00:22:50,159 --> 00:22:47,649
risk factors I think which contributes

543
00:22:51,869 --> 00:22:50,169
to many other contributing causes

544
00:22:53,099 --> 00:22:51,879
because you're smoking up a storm you

545
00:22:54,629 --> 00:22:53,109
probably aren't going to the gym very

546
00:22:55,889 --> 00:22:54,639
exactly so I think it's one those things

547
00:22:56,940 --> 00:22:55,899
as well you know the whole thing about

548
00:22:59,280 --> 00:22:56,950
them

549
00:23:00,450 --> 00:22:59,290
people who go to the gym are obviously

550
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:00,460
generally healthier well that's probably

551
00:23:03,299 --> 00:23:02,410
because they not because they go into

552
00:23:04,890 --> 00:23:03,309
the gym but because they're more

553
00:23:06,060 --> 00:23:04,900
inclined to go to the gym there's a

554
00:23:07,260 --> 00:23:06,070
whole load of contributing factors it's

555
00:23:09,510 --> 00:23:07,270
never just one thing where you take that

556
00:23:11,220 --> 00:23:09,520
box you know I mean like things like

557
00:23:13,770 --> 00:23:11,230
cancer for example being alive is a risk

558
00:23:15,180 --> 00:23:13,780
point for having cancer and also being

559
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:15,190
alive is a risk factor for having a

560
00:23:19,530 --> 00:23:17,650
stroke unfortunately and you're going to

561
00:23:21,090 --> 00:23:19,540
talk about some of the new innovations

562
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:21,100
in the treatment of stroke what you've

563
00:23:24,900 --> 00:23:23,170
got on tonight yeah well so I am very

564
00:23:27,450 --> 00:23:24,910
lucky to be involved with an absolutely

565
00:23:29,340 --> 00:23:27,460
amazing team who treat ischemic stroke

566
00:23:33,030 --> 00:23:29,350
using interventional radiology which is

567
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:33,040
my bag yeah they really do incredible

568
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:35,290
work and it's it isn't imminent in the

569
00:23:39,270 --> 00:23:37,570
sense of it's only been around less than

570
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:39,280
a decade the method I'll be talking

571
00:23:43,620 --> 00:23:41,290
about tonight which is endovascular pot

572
00:23:45,510 --> 00:23:43,630
retrieval anybody around for maybe about

573
00:23:47,220 --> 00:23:45,520
a decade and it's only really the last

574
00:23:49,590 --> 00:23:47,230
three or four years it's been actually

575
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:49,600
widely available looking a special shout

576
00:23:53,130 --> 00:23:51,250
out to peak pork at the lead singer of

577
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:53,140
the great Newcastle based band the

578
00:23:57,570 --> 00:23:54,730
porkers because on his first date with

579
00:23:59,010 --> 00:23:57,580
his current girl Ronda he had a stroke

580
00:24:00,360 --> 00:23:59,020
on the first date while him up while

581
00:24:02,010 --> 00:24:00,370
their first time in bed together and

582
00:24:04,049 --> 00:24:02,020
Twitter hey you got to get to the

583
00:24:05,610 --> 00:24:04,059
hospital and if she hadn't done that he

584
00:24:07,830 --> 00:24:05,620
might have just continued on his own

585
00:24:08,970 --> 00:24:07,840
yeah I hate so many stories like that

586
00:24:10,919 --> 00:24:08,980
that was one that I'll talk about

587
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:10,929
tonight of a patient who is out with a

588
00:24:14,700 --> 00:24:13,330
nurse having lunch and the nurse notice

589
00:24:18,210 --> 00:24:14,710
that side of her face has started to go

590
00:24:20,220 --> 00:24:18,220
droopy and she instantly called triple

591
00:24:21,510 --> 00:24:20,230
zero instantly she recognized those

592
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:21,520
signs straight aware of the face just

593
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:23,410
going and her friends started slurring

594
00:24:28,890 --> 00:24:25,890
and she was like what she's not drunk

595
00:24:30,900 --> 00:24:28,900
yeah but you wouldn't have much you do

596
00:24:31,860 --> 00:24:30,910
times in minutes isn't it but well no

597
00:24:33,510 --> 00:24:31,870
actually and that's one thing I'll be

598
00:24:35,549 --> 00:24:33,520
talking about tonight so she was very

599
00:24:38,130 --> 00:24:35,559
lucky she was within five kilometers of

600
00:24:40,220 --> 00:24:38,140
our PA so the ambulance got there super

601
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:40,230
quick she had everything was on her side

602
00:24:45,299 --> 00:24:43,570
but yeah you do often get cases you know

603
00:24:46,140 --> 00:24:45,309
out in the bush for example but one of

604
00:24:47,340 --> 00:24:46,150
things that we talk about tonight is

605
00:24:48,930 --> 00:24:47,350
actually the fact that they have

606
00:24:50,430 --> 00:24:48,940
increased the bracket at the time window

607
00:24:52,110 --> 00:24:50,440
so it used to be this particular

608
00:24:54,419 --> 00:24:52,120
treatment was only available within six

609
00:24:56,159 --> 00:24:54,429
hours and now oftentimes obviously

610
00:24:58,680 --> 00:24:56,169
people will have a stroke in their sleep

611
00:25:00,230 --> 00:24:58,690
yes yeah so if you have a stroke say at

612
00:25:02,299 --> 00:25:00,240
10:00 p.m. and then

613
00:25:04,580 --> 00:25:02,309
you know you wake up with your partner

614
00:25:07,730 --> 00:25:04,590
wakes up at 7:00 well that's you know

615
00:25:10,549 --> 00:25:07,740
that's nine hours of having a stroke so

616
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:10,559
often they call that like a wake up

617
00:25:14,419 --> 00:25:12,210
stroke so someone who's woken up and it

618
00:25:15,380 --> 00:25:14,429
turns out they've had a stroke often

619
00:25:17,540 --> 00:25:15,390
what can happen as well as you might

620
00:25:19,910 --> 00:25:17,550
have a stroke and you live alone and if

621
00:25:22,010 --> 00:25:19,920
you live out in water you don't have

622
00:25:24,950 --> 00:25:22,020
much on your doorstep that can help you

623
00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:24,960
so we often get patients coming from a

624
00:25:27,919 --> 00:25:26,370
really long way away I spend a lot of my

625
00:25:28,580 --> 00:25:27,929
time watching the flight tracker app on

626
00:25:30,950 --> 00:25:28,590
my phone

627
00:25:32,030 --> 00:25:30,960
see how much time I've got can I fit in

628
00:25:35,540 --> 00:25:32,040
another episode of stranger things

629
00:25:37,130 --> 00:25:35,550
before this one arrives and is it jump I

630
00:25:39,350 --> 00:25:37,140
mean usually I imagine it's stuff like

631
00:25:41,299 --> 00:25:39,360
blood thinners is a first-line thing but

632
00:25:42,770 --> 00:25:41,309
there's much more nuance to treatments

633
00:25:45,830 --> 00:25:42,780
now aren't there absolutely

634
00:25:48,740 --> 00:25:45,840
so yeah clot-busting drugs so frumble

635
00:25:49,970 --> 00:25:48,750
Isis is kind of the the common thing

636
00:25:51,230 --> 00:25:49,980
that they inject obviously they just

637
00:25:53,630 --> 00:25:51,240
inject it into your bloodstream and hope

638
00:25:56,150 --> 00:25:53,640
that it finds its way to the clot but

639
00:25:57,980 --> 00:25:56,160
now we actually do mechanical removal so

640
00:26:01,070 --> 00:25:57,990
we actually go up into the brain find

641
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:01,080
the clot this is a similar to what when

642
00:26:03,799 --> 00:26:02,730
you have the stent into the heart and

643
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:03,809
they have a look around there except the

644
00:26:07,100 --> 00:26:05,010
go up into the brain but how long does

645
00:26:09,020 --> 00:26:07,110
it take to get up there minutes really

646
00:26:12,130 --> 00:26:09,030
yeah the record that I've seen and it

647
00:26:15,620 --> 00:26:12,140
was brilliant and not that it's a race

648
00:26:17,330 --> 00:26:15,630
it's a race against biology so one of

649
00:26:19,340 --> 00:26:17,340
the records that I've seen was about 18

650
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:19,350
minutes from start to finish and that's

651
00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:20,970
from the patient getting onto the table

652
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:23,130
so actually having full reperfusion of

653
00:26:26,450 --> 00:26:25,410
their brain and you'd only have a valium

654
00:26:27,380 --> 00:26:26,460
drip going on you and you're like that

655
00:26:29,060 --> 00:26:27,390
or what do you do

656
00:26:30,460 --> 00:26:29,070
is the patient sedated at all because

657
00:26:32,690 --> 00:26:30,470
that would just freak me out on its own

658
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:32,700
it would cause me to have a stroke by

659
00:26:35,780 --> 00:26:34,650
the fact they're trying to yeah so we

660
00:26:38,900 --> 00:26:35,790
take into account multiple risk factors

661
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:38,910
so if the patient is its most likely to

662
00:26:41,630 --> 00:26:40,290
move throughout the examination because

663
00:26:42,620 --> 00:26:41,640
they're just confused and they have no

664
00:26:45,169 --> 00:26:42,630
idea what's going on then we will

665
00:26:47,030 --> 00:26:45,179
anesthetize them that's for the best but

666
00:26:48,290 --> 00:26:47,040
we have done them fully awake we do

667
00:26:49,610 --> 00:26:48,300
fully awake and that's pretty amazing

668
00:26:52,340 --> 00:26:49,620
because you actually get to see their

669
00:26:54,260 --> 00:26:52,350
recovery instantly honestly there's

670
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:54,270
nothing quite like you know you get the

671
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:55,530
patient coming in and being loaded on

672
00:26:58,220 --> 00:26:56,610
ambulance trolley and they are

673
00:26:59,419 --> 00:26:58,230
completely what we call hemiplegic so

674
00:27:01,430 --> 00:26:59,429
they cannot move one side of their body

675
00:27:02,660 --> 00:27:01,440
and they'll often be like struggling and

676
00:27:04,190 --> 00:27:02,670
fighting with the other side so they're

677
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:04,200
actually moving but they're just it's

678
00:27:06,590 --> 00:27:05,490
like a line drawn down the middle and

679
00:27:08,510 --> 00:27:06,600
they're not leaving that side

680
00:27:10,490 --> 00:27:08,520
we do the clock retrieval sometimes in

681
00:27:12,020 --> 00:27:10,500
like less than half an hour and then

682
00:27:13,250 --> 00:27:12,030
they start moving and they're not even

683
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:13,260
realizing it and they're just like

684
00:27:18,020 --> 00:27:14,850
liquid up and scratch their nose you

685
00:27:19,580 --> 00:27:18,030
know just like that's awesome yeah now

686
00:27:20,750 --> 00:27:19,590
do you think you can ever see a day

687
00:27:22,940 --> 00:27:20,760
where instead of actually have to

688
00:27:25,610 --> 00:27:22,950
physically intervene up near the artery

689
00:27:26,780 --> 00:27:25,620
you be able to do it like microwave

690
00:27:28,700 --> 00:27:26,790
through the head or something like so

691
00:27:30,650 --> 00:27:28,710
you'll be able to do it from outside and

692
00:27:32,750 --> 00:27:30,660
be able to manipulate the inside from a

693
00:27:38,150 --> 00:27:32,760
short distance I can't see that not

694
00:27:39,770 --> 00:27:38,160
causing problems with radiation you can

695
00:27:41,690 --> 00:27:39,780
zap stuff I thought maybe you could do

696
00:27:43,159 --> 00:27:41,700
some zapping at the clot but obviously

697
00:27:45,470 --> 00:27:43,169
there are associated risks with

698
00:27:47,180 --> 00:27:45,480
radiation so risk versus benefit is the

699
00:27:48,799 --> 00:27:47,190
main thing and at the moment the risk of

700
00:27:50,780 --> 00:27:48,809
like intervening and doing an

701
00:27:53,030 --> 00:27:50,790
endovascular coat retrieval is nothing

702
00:27:55,190 --> 00:27:53,040
compared to the risks of Salem trying

703
00:27:57,799 --> 00:27:55,200
someone's brain so the maenad microwave

704
00:27:59,570 --> 00:27:57,809
way is just that's a few years off yet

705
00:28:01,520 --> 00:27:59,580
file the patent now because you never

706
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:01,530
know well I'm just thinking you know dr.

707
00:28:04,610 --> 00:28:02,970
McCoy has a salt and pepper shaker he

708
00:28:06,290 --> 00:28:04,620
moves over someone's head that's what

709
00:28:08,210 --> 00:28:06,300
I'm thinking is gonna happen you know so

710
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:08,220
a magnetic way of doing it you see that

711
00:28:09,860 --> 00:28:09,570
wouldn't hurt as much well you never

712
00:28:11,990 --> 00:28:09,870
know

713
00:28:13,460 --> 00:28:12,000
mMmmm that is pretty amazing looking

714
00:28:14,930 --> 00:28:13,470
good luck with it there and what a good

715
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:14,940
questions you I think you might get some

716
00:28:19,250 --> 00:28:16,770
high-level questions like I'm not sure

717
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:19,260
that antigens correct I really hope not

718
00:28:24,010 --> 00:28:20,730
because I'm host night shift and I'm a

719
00:28:26,750 --> 00:28:24,020
little bit delirious but we'll see

720
00:28:28,690 --> 00:28:26,760
medicine system at work people you've

721
00:28:30,740 --> 00:28:28,700
been on work for three days I believe

722
00:28:34,669 --> 00:28:30,750
you can t remember what hospitals you've

723
00:28:36,919 --> 00:28:34,679
been in and the question we are asking

724
00:28:39,020 --> 00:28:36,929
people Trish is should the skeptics

725
00:28:40,850 --> 00:28:39,030
intervene in someone who claims their

726
00:28:42,140 --> 00:28:40,860
psychic healer the New Zealand skeptics

727
00:28:43,700 --> 00:28:42,150
of getting all uppity with the woman

728
00:28:45,169 --> 00:28:43,710
who's coming in there is going to claim

729
00:28:47,630 --> 00:28:45,179
she's going to psychically heal people

730
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:47,640
is it the skeptics place to bring up

731
00:28:51,049 --> 00:28:49,410
venues and go oh come on that's a bit

732
00:28:53,659 --> 00:28:51,059
fraud II should you be doing that is it

733
00:28:55,549 --> 00:28:53,669
or should they just butt out as someone

734
00:28:57,799 --> 00:28:55,559
who has done exactly that and has

735
00:29:00,409 --> 00:28:57,809
protested outside of venues

736
00:29:01,879 --> 00:29:00,419
I have an opinion yeah I do actually

737
00:29:04,459 --> 00:29:01,889
think that's the case because if someone

738
00:29:06,139 --> 00:29:04,469
was there trying to scam people in other

739
00:29:07,580 --> 00:29:06,149
ways you know like trying to set up a

740
00:29:08,810 --> 00:29:07,590
pyramid scheme or something at big money

741
00:29:11,149 --> 00:29:08,820
I guarantee they'd get shut down by

742
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:11,159
local Trading Standards so I do feel

743
00:29:14,239 --> 00:29:12,570
like with psychics they've got a bit of

744
00:29:15,769 --> 00:29:14,249
a free pass that we should be trying to

745
00:29:17,060 --> 00:29:15,779
revoke the course as I've been

746
00:29:18,589 --> 00:29:17,070
mentioning that this one she's got the

747
00:29:20,629 --> 00:29:18,599
new angle where she's not actually

748
00:29:23,389 --> 00:29:20,639
healing the people she contacts psychic

749
00:29:25,070 --> 00:29:23,399
surgeons on the other side who kill the

750
00:29:26,659 --> 00:29:25,080
person that and that's that's a good

751
00:29:27,649 --> 00:29:26,669
look even the amazing Randi hadn't

752
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:27,659
thought of that one that's a new one

753
00:29:32,149 --> 00:29:30,210
that's pretty special juice for

754
00:29:33,709 --> 00:29:32,159
innovative new methods of scamming

755
00:29:35,299 --> 00:29:33,719
people so wonder if she has psychic

756
00:29:36,619 --> 00:29:35,309
lawyers on the other side so if you want

757
00:29:38,029 --> 00:29:36,629
to get a good divorce settlement or

758
00:29:39,709 --> 00:29:38,039
something or sue someone or ran into

759
00:29:41,089 --> 00:29:39,719
your car I just want to know if these

760
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:41,099
dead doctors that are Pro registered

761
00:29:43,399 --> 00:29:42,210
because you know I feel like we should

762
00:29:45,259 --> 00:29:43,409
be about four complaints about them

763
00:29:46,669 --> 00:29:45,269
that's right and and if they're dead how

764
00:29:48,169 --> 00:29:46,679
long ago did they dive they've been

765
00:29:49,879 --> 00:29:48,179
keeping up there you know have they been

766
00:29:51,169 --> 00:29:49,889
of the best practices you know maybe

767
00:29:54,729 --> 00:29:51,179
there's still like trap hunting and

768
00:29:57,469 --> 00:29:54,739
stuff like that you know is their

769
00:29:59,749 --> 00:29:57,479
psychic malpractice insurance value

770
00:30:00,769 --> 00:29:59,759
absolutely yeah okay well we know where

771
00:30:07,630 --> 00:30:00,779
you sit on that one thanks Trish and

772
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,760
[Music]

773
00:30:16,060 --> 00:30:14,830
i'm mick west in my podcast tells from

774
00:30:17,380 --> 00:30:16,070
the rabbit-hole i have extended

775
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:17,390
conversations with people who've been

776
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:19,850
involved in conspiracy culture i do this

777
00:30:22,780 --> 00:30:21,410
for a couple of reasons firstly because

778
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:22,790
it's really interesting these people

779
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:24,410
have great stories about how they fell

780
00:30:27,910 --> 00:30:26,210
down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole

781
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:27,920
what they did down there and what it was

782
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:29,690
that helped them out sometimes i also

783
00:30:32,140 --> 00:30:30,890
talked to people who investigate

784
00:30:33,670 --> 00:30:32,150
conspiracy theories and they have

785
00:30:34,300 --> 00:30:33,680
equally fascinating stories from the

786
00:30:36,370 --> 00:30:34,310
other side

787
00:30:37,870 --> 00:30:36,380
secondly i want to understand how best

788
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:37,880
to prevent the spread of conspiracy

789
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:39,410
theories and misinformation which is an

790
00:30:43,450 --> 00:30:40,970
increasing problem in a time when

791
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:43,460
alternative media is exploding the best

792
00:30:47,110 --> 00:30:45,050
way to do this is to communicate

793
00:30:49,180 --> 00:30:47,120
effectively with the people involved and

794
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:49,190
the best way to do that with a nice long

795
00:30:59,030 --> 00:30:51,170
chat check it out

796
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:22,340
I think we need to think here susan

797
00:31:34,730 --> 00:31:22,850
gerbic

798
00:31:36,890 --> 00:31:34,740
the guerrilla skepticism on wikipedia

799
00:31:38,420 --> 00:31:36,900
project we have just written the

800
00:31:40,460 --> 00:31:38,430
wikipedia pages for several

801
00:31:43,810 --> 00:31:40,470
up-and-coming psychics from one

802
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:43,820
naturopath when anti-vaxxer the

803
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:46,410
cryptozoologist and two men who say

804
00:31:51,530 --> 00:31:48,450
they've been abducted by UFOs

805
00:31:53,210 --> 00:31:51,540
a few quack cancer clinics of nicely

806
00:31:56,900 --> 00:31:53,220
written Wikipedia pages because of her

807
00:31:58,100 --> 00:31:56,910
we could be the editing team as I sit

808
00:31:59,660 --> 00:31:58,110
here and think about it we've written

809
00:32:03,020 --> 00:31:59,670
all kinds of pages for what might be

810
00:32:04,910 --> 00:32:03,030
considered the other side one we wrote

811
00:32:06,950 --> 00:32:04,920
years ago was for a child in a coma

812
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:06,960
whose mother claimed that the child had

813
00:32:11,780 --> 00:32:09,690
the power to heal mom turned her bedroom

814
00:32:13,580 --> 00:32:11,790
into a shrine with glass windows all

815
00:32:17,030 --> 00:32:13,590
around it so the believers could walk

816
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:17,040
past the room and stare in at the end of

817
00:32:20,660 --> 00:32:18,330
the tour the believers could purchase

818
00:32:23,150 --> 00:32:20,670
blessed oils and cotton swabs with the

819
00:32:26,690 --> 00:32:23,160
child's sweat on it that scam went on

820
00:32:28,550 --> 00:32:26,700
for years until the child died so why do

821
00:32:30,290 --> 00:32:28,560
we do it I mean we spent hours working

822
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:30,300
on these Wikipedia pages to get them

823
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:32,370
just right we want them to be readable

824
00:32:36,470 --> 00:32:35,010
enjoyable even with lots of citations

825
00:32:39,050 --> 00:32:36,480
people can follow if they want more

826
00:32:42,290 --> 00:32:39,060
information so I support the notoriety

827
00:32:43,820 --> 00:32:42,300
of scammers and fakes well this was

828
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:43,830
something that I had to struggle with at

829
00:32:48,650 --> 00:32:45,330
the beginning of our Wikipedia project

830
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:48,660
was our time spent better working on

831
00:32:53,570 --> 00:32:50,490
Wikipedia pages for people within our

832
00:32:56,060 --> 00:32:53,580
community well I guess over time it

833
00:32:58,010 --> 00:32:56,070
became clear once a person reaches the

834
00:33:00,410 --> 00:32:58,020
tipping point of notability that allows

835
00:33:02,030 --> 00:33:00,420
someone to write a Wikipedia page then

836
00:33:04,190 --> 00:33:02,040
it's best if someone from the scientific

837
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:04,200
skepticism community does it

838
00:33:09,290 --> 00:33:06,930
we don't want slanderous gossipy nasty

839
00:33:10,910 --> 00:33:09,300
Wikipedia pages we treat the pages the

840
00:33:12,830 --> 00:33:10,920
same way we would if we were someone

841
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:12,840
from within our science community we

842
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:15,090
remain as neutral as we can be allowing

843
00:33:18,860 --> 00:33:17,010
the citations we find to tell the story

844
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:18,870
and those citations are not from

845
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:21,690
tabloids blogs or websites but from

846
00:33:26,060 --> 00:33:24,210
serious news agencies and that's the

847
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:26,070
rules of Wikipedia so we have to abide

848
00:33:30,530 --> 00:33:28,650
by them we're going to seek out quality

849
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:30,540
science articles written by other

850
00:33:34,010 --> 00:33:32,370
notable people who are experts in the

851
00:33:35,570 --> 00:33:34,020
field we aren't going to write a

852
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:35,580
Wikipedia page for anyone that would

853
00:33:39,890 --> 00:33:38,250
look like fluff we know that Wikipedia

854
00:33:41,780 --> 00:33:39,900
is one of the first links a curious

855
00:33:42,290 --> 00:33:41,790
person might find it in an internet

856
00:33:44,330 --> 00:33:42,300
search

857
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:44,340
and they are more likely to venture

858
00:33:47,510 --> 00:33:45,810
there first before checking out a

859
00:33:50,690 --> 00:33:47,520
website that might appear to be biased

860
00:33:52,550 --> 00:33:50,700
when way or the other they know that the

861
00:33:55,700 --> 00:33:52,560
Wikipedia page will not have pop-ups

862
00:33:58,150 --> 00:33:55,710
malware or have advertisements so it's a

863
00:34:00,340 --> 00:33:58,160
safe place to go to first

864
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:00,350
if there is no Wikipedia page then the

865
00:34:04,810 --> 00:34:02,210
only other place a curious person might

866
00:34:06,850 --> 00:34:04,820
find is that person's website as social

867
00:34:10,450 --> 00:34:06,860
media accounts and we know what that's

868
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:10,460
going to be one-sided so GSO Debu is

869
00:34:13,419 --> 00:34:12,050
going to continue writing Wikipedia

870
00:34:15,430 --> 00:34:13,429
pages for people who practice

871
00:34:17,620 --> 00:34:15,440
pseudoscience as well as all the other

872
00:34:19,470 --> 00:34:17,630
pages we write that are for the pro

873
00:34:22,450 --> 00:34:19,480
science people in our community

874
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:22,460
it's quite a task and we are only a

875
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:25,010
little over a hundred editors after all

876
00:34:32,860 --> 00:34:27,970
and we're all volunteers with busy lives

877
00:34:37,150 --> 00:34:32,870
but we managed to create 1158 Wikipedia

878
00:34:39,430 --> 00:34:37,160
pages as I record this and those 1158

879
00:34:42,850 --> 00:34:39,440
pages have been viewed just over 49

880
00:34:44,620 --> 00:34:42,860
million times imagine that if those

881
00:34:47,169 --> 00:34:44,630
pages didn't exist then what would they

882
00:34:49,810 --> 00:34:47,179
find when they searched if you'd like to

883
00:34:51,330 --> 00:34:49,820
become one of our gso w editors please

884
00:34:54,430 --> 00:34:51,340
send me a private message on facebook

885
00:34:56,380 --> 00:34:54,440
training takes about four months and it

886
00:34:59,080 --> 00:34:56,390
does happen on Google Documents and a

887
00:35:00,970 --> 00:34:59,090
secret cabal on Facebook if you have

888
00:35:05,310 --> 00:35:00,980
questions you can find answers on our

889
00:35:08,190 --> 00:35:05,320
website GS o W team.org

890
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:08,200
thank you

891
00:35:18,660 --> 00:35:15,210
[Music]

892
00:35:20,820 --> 00:35:18,670
the earth is only six thousand years old

893
00:35:23,670 --> 00:35:20,830
that's what Answers in Genesis and the

894
00:35:27,870 --> 00:35:23,680
Creation Museum say and how can a museum

895
00:35:30,930 --> 00:35:27,880
be wrong isn't dr. oz just wonderful I

896
00:35:33,890 --> 00:35:30,940
love today's episode it didn't talk down

897
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:33,900
to his adoring audience of women at all

898
00:35:38,460 --> 00:35:36,130
science has proved that the subatomic

899
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:38,470
quantum realm is as real as it is

900
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:41,050
counterintuitive and bizarre therefore I

901
00:35:45,630 --> 00:35:42,970
can use it to support quantum healing

902
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:45,640
and quantum consciousness after all how

903
00:35:50,130 --> 00:35:47,530
can journals like Aquarius metaphysics

904
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:50,140
be wrong evolution is just a theory

905
00:35:55,290 --> 00:35:52,210
after all if we came from monkeys then

906
00:35:56,580 --> 00:35:55,300
why are there still monkeys we all have

907
00:35:59,130 --> 00:35:56,590
friends and family who believe these

908
00:36:01,110 --> 00:35:59,140
things and much more well if you're a

909
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:01,120
rational thinker who is tired of arguing

910
00:36:04,950 --> 00:36:02,890
on social media and never getting

911
00:36:06,990 --> 00:36:04,960
anywhere we have a solution for you

912
00:36:09,450 --> 00:36:07,000
join the guerrilla skepticism on

913
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:09,460
wikipedia team and we will teach you how

914
00:36:13,980 --> 00:36:11,890
to add reliable scientific and skeptical

915
00:36:15,330 --> 00:36:13,990
information to the world's number-one

916
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:15,340
source of information

917
00:36:19,830 --> 00:36:17,770
Wikipedia we write new articles and

918
00:36:21,810 --> 00:36:19,840
improve existing ones we remove

919
00:36:24,270 --> 00:36:21,820
pseudoscience paranormal and altmed

920
00:36:26,550 --> 00:36:24,280
claims substituting the actual facts and

921
00:36:28,530 --> 00:36:26,560
we operate in many languages we've

922
00:36:31,050 --> 00:36:28,540
already reached tens of millions of

923
00:36:32,850 --> 00:36:31,060
people searching for information but as

924
00:36:36,300 --> 00:36:32,860
you can imagine we can never do enough

925
00:36:38,220 --> 00:36:36,310
so please join us all you need is a PC

926
00:36:40,740 --> 00:36:38,230
and the desire to help educate the

927
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:40,750
planet in fact you'll be educating the

928
00:36:47,340 --> 00:36:43,810
world while you sleep contact us at T is

929
00:36:51,980 --> 00:36:47,350
a W team at gmail.com guerrilla

930
00:36:51,990 --> 00:37:09,700
[Music]

931
00:37:14,650 --> 00:37:12,040
and joining me now all the way from the

932
00:37:17,250 --> 00:37:14,660
University of Melbourne its associate

933
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:17,260
professor Fiona fiddler hello Fiona

934
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:20,450
hello Richard great to catch up with you

935
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:23,210
I'm very interested because you are

936
00:37:28,660 --> 00:37:26,330
appearing at skeptic on 2019 in

937
00:37:31,540 --> 00:37:28,670
Melbourne in December and what an

938
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:31,550
interesting topic or topics you're going

939
00:37:37,720 --> 00:37:33,770
to be covering first of all you have a

940
00:37:39,810 --> 00:37:37,730
PhD in history and philosophy of science

941
00:37:41,730 --> 00:37:39,820
what what does that entail exactly

942
00:37:45,490 --> 00:37:41,740
history and philosophy of science

943
00:37:48,790 --> 00:37:45,500
studies science in its social historical

944
00:37:51,970 --> 00:37:48,800
context so we ask questions about what

945
00:37:55,510 --> 00:37:51,980
makes science different other ways of

946
00:37:57,130 --> 00:37:55,520
knowing we look at important episodes in

947
00:37:59,920 --> 00:37:57,140
the history of science and see what we

948
00:38:02,110 --> 00:37:59,930
can learn from them we look at social

949
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:02,120
political and cultural influences of

950
00:38:08,290 --> 00:38:05,450
science the work that I myself do looks

951
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:08,300
at methodological change within science

952
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:11,090
so we know a lot about how science

953
00:38:16,780 --> 00:38:14,450
changes its theories how there's us when

954
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:16,790
there's a switch from one theoretical

955
00:38:21,850 --> 00:38:19,370
paradigm to another but methods change

956
00:38:24,820 --> 00:38:21,860
seems to be different so when do

957
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:24,830
scientists decide to stop doing

958
00:38:29,140 --> 00:38:27,170
experiments a particular way or stop

959
00:38:33,100 --> 00:38:29,150
using a particular type of statistical

960
00:38:36,070 --> 00:38:33,110
analysis and adopt new methods that's

961
00:38:38,230 --> 00:38:36,080
the fact that I mean so it's it's in a

962
00:38:41,130 --> 00:38:38,240
way it's the scientific investigation of

963
00:38:43,630 --> 00:38:41,140
science you could say yes exactly

964
00:38:45,450 --> 00:38:43,640
well that sounds absolutely fascinating

965
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:45,460
and I know just reading the information

966
00:38:50,350 --> 00:38:48,650
at the University of Melbourne that you

967
00:38:54,010 --> 00:38:50,360
are very interested in something that we

968
00:38:57,460 --> 00:38:54,020
hear a lot in on sceptical conversations

969
00:39:00,730 --> 00:38:57,470
we hear about the null hypothesis now

970
00:39:02,410 --> 00:39:00,740
for a general overview what is the null

971
00:39:05,170 --> 00:39:02,420
hypothesis and why would you be

972
00:39:07,780 --> 00:39:05,180
investigating that null hypothesis

973
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:07,790
significance testing is is the full

974
00:39:14,700 --> 00:39:11,210
title of the statistical procedure that

975
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:14,710
scientists use this is used across

976
00:39:19,830 --> 00:39:17,330
virtually all of the social sciences

977
00:39:23,140 --> 00:39:19,840
life sciences medicine

978
00:39:25,290 --> 00:39:23,150
less so in in physics but

979
00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:25,300
in many Sciences it is the

980
00:39:32,530 --> 00:39:28,250
overwhelmingly dominant statistical

981
00:39:34,930 --> 00:39:32,540
method and it starts by testing in

982
00:39:36,610 --> 00:39:34,940
typical practice it starts by testing a

983
00:39:39,420 --> 00:39:36,620
hypothesis that there is no difference

984
00:39:42,550 --> 00:39:39,430
and from you know from the outset that

985
00:39:44,380 --> 00:39:42,560
that's a bit of a fudge really we

986
00:39:46,630 --> 00:39:44,390
wouldn't normally be doing an experiment

987
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:46,640
or a study if we didn't think there was

988
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:48,650
some difference between these two groups

989
00:39:54,610 --> 00:39:51,370
or that this drug was going to have some

990
00:39:57,100 --> 00:39:54,620
influence on what whatever disease were

991
00:39:59,890 --> 00:39:57,110
using it for hmm so testing a null

992
00:40:03,460 --> 00:39:59,900
hypothesis is a is a bit of a straw man

993
00:40:05,710 --> 00:40:03,470
in many cases so but that's the starting

994
00:40:08,230 --> 00:40:05,720
point is that you assume that there is

995
00:40:10,950 --> 00:40:08,240
no difference between the boys and girls

996
00:40:15,910 --> 00:40:10,960
or the treatment and control group and

997
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:15,920
look for deviations from that it's a

998
00:40:23,860 --> 00:40:18,650
practice that's been heavily criticized

999
00:40:26,230 --> 00:40:23,870
now in virtually all Sciences for six or

1000
00:40:29,620 --> 00:40:26,240
seven decades these criticisms go back

1001
00:40:33,490 --> 00:40:29,630
to the 1940s but pretty much the you

1002
00:40:38,590 --> 00:40:33,500
know from the its first use in applied

1003
00:40:40,690 --> 00:40:38,600
science and yet in most cases scientists

1004
00:40:44,170 --> 00:40:40,700
have been very reluctant to give up

1005
00:40:47,380 --> 00:40:44,180
their practice of using null hypothesis

1006
00:40:50,230 --> 00:40:47,390
significance testing and my PhD

1007
00:40:53,140 --> 00:40:50,240
dissertation investigated the question

1008
00:40:57,850 --> 00:40:53,150
of why there has been so much resistance

1009
00:40:59,530 --> 00:40:57,860
to to abandoning that method that's very

1010
00:41:01,330 --> 00:40:59,540
interesting because I I didn't know

1011
00:41:04,780 --> 00:41:01,340
there was a controversy at all it's just

1012
00:41:07,270 --> 00:41:04,790
one of these things you hear and I don't

1013
00:41:09,970 --> 00:41:07,280
have a degree in science myself so I

1014
00:41:11,380 --> 00:41:09,980
guess like the average person on the

1015
00:41:13,570 --> 00:41:11,390
street I would have heard this term

1016
00:41:16,180 --> 00:41:13,580
every now and then just assumed it was a

1017
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:16,190
vital part of scientific testing and

1018
00:41:22,990 --> 00:41:18,410
rigor well there is of course some

1019
00:41:24,730 --> 00:41:23,000
debate there there are certainly some

1020
00:41:27,700 --> 00:41:24,740
uses of the test that might be

1021
00:41:29,980 --> 00:41:27,710
appropriate but there are many many more

1022
00:41:32,020 --> 00:41:29,990
that are inappropriate and I think at

1023
00:41:36,340 --> 00:41:32,030
this point there have been when I

1024
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:36,350
finished my PhD in thesis in 2006 they

1025
00:41:40,330 --> 00:41:37,010
had at that

1026
00:41:44,050 --> 00:41:40,340
bring Nellie 2,000 criticisms oh no

1027
00:41:46,510 --> 00:41:44,060
hypothesis-testing published well good

1028
00:41:49,060 --> 00:41:46,520
grief without signs for you of course I

1029
00:41:50,890 --> 00:41:49,070
mean I mean the whole idea and I hope

1030
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:50,900
the whole idea of science is continual

1031
00:41:55,750 --> 00:41:53,450
revision and improvement and if that is

1032
00:41:57,070 --> 00:41:55,760
the case with the null hypothesis gee

1033
00:41:59,050 --> 00:41:57,080
that could lead you down all sorts of

1034
00:42:00,640 --> 00:41:59,060
interesting rabbit holes another thing I

1035
00:42:02,770 --> 00:42:00,650
found interesting was that you are

1036
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:02,780
looking into something and this is

1037
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:04,490
something I don't know much about called

1038
00:42:09,190 --> 00:42:07,370
pea hacking are you happy no it's not

1039
00:42:13,090 --> 00:42:09,200
shelling peas to find the best one what

1040
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:13,100
is P hacking exactly well a p-value is

1041
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:16,490
the output of null hypothesis

1042
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:19,010
significance testing should say that

1043
00:42:25,270 --> 00:42:21,410
there are other there are there are many

1044
00:42:27,250 --> 00:42:25,280
ways one can use a p-value but the the

1045
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:27,260
dominant way associated with null

1046
00:42:36,460 --> 00:42:31,490
hypothesis testing is to set a cut-off a

1047
00:42:39,730 --> 00:42:36,470
threshold usually P 0.05 where we say

1048
00:42:43,180 --> 00:42:39,740
that we're willing to tolerate a 5%

1049
00:42:45,790 --> 00:42:43,190
false positive error rate and when

1050
00:42:47,950 --> 00:42:45,800
something falls below that threshold of

1051
00:42:49,750 --> 00:42:47,960
0.05 we will call the results

1052
00:42:51,100 --> 00:42:49,760
statistically significant and when it

1053
00:42:53,950 --> 00:42:51,110
doesn't we call it statistically

1054
00:42:56,020 --> 00:42:53,960
nonsignificant so that's that's sort of

1055
00:42:59,860 --> 00:42:56,030
the most common way that people use

1056
00:43:04,240 --> 00:42:59,870
abused and it means that this 0.05 has

1057
00:43:07,060 --> 00:43:04,250
become a threshold that gets used to

1058
00:43:09,910 --> 00:43:07,070
decide which studies get published or

1059
00:43:12,730 --> 00:43:09,920
which results are regarded as important

1060
00:43:15,490 --> 00:43:12,740
and because of the sort of gatekeeping

1061
00:43:18,580 --> 00:43:15,500
significance that that number holds

1062
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:18,590
people will do all kinds of things to

1063
00:43:24,550 --> 00:43:21,170
ensure that their result does get over

1064
00:43:28,450 --> 00:43:24,560
that threshold so that's where the word

1065
00:43:31,720 --> 00:43:28,460
hacking comes in yeah so there are many

1066
00:43:35,140 --> 00:43:31,730
ways that scientists can do can engage

1067
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:35,150
in P hacking they can trim a couple of

1068
00:43:41,590 --> 00:43:38,810
outliers from their results for example

1069
00:43:43,240 --> 00:43:41,600
or they can transform a particular

1070
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:43,250
variable that they might not have

1071
00:43:50,860 --> 00:43:48,050
otherwise transformed they can engage in

1072
00:43:53,170 --> 00:43:50,870
some over in

1073
00:43:58,030 --> 00:43:53,180
you see a stick rounding of different

1074
00:43:59,830 --> 00:43:58,040
places I guess this comes back to the

1075
00:44:03,640 --> 00:43:59,840
amazing fact that scientists are also

1076
00:44:06,910 --> 00:44:03,650
human and they're likely to do very

1077
00:44:08,980 --> 00:44:06,920
human things from time to time yeah and

1078
00:44:14,020 --> 00:44:08,990
if the and if there is a lot of pressure

1079
00:44:17,170 --> 00:44:14,030
to to publish every study that you do

1080
00:44:19,750 --> 00:44:17,180
and if there is public if there is

1081
00:44:21,940 --> 00:44:19,760
publication bias focused on these

1082
00:44:26,140 --> 00:44:21,950
arbitrary thresholds if the incentives

1083
00:44:28,510 --> 00:44:26,150
are set up in ways that encourage or

1084
00:44:30,850 --> 00:44:28,520
almost force scientists into these

1085
00:44:34,210 --> 00:44:30,860
practices then you know then they will

1086
00:44:37,570 --> 00:44:34,220
do what they need to do to keep their

1087
00:44:40,510 --> 00:44:37,580
jobs and get their next grant keep their

1088
00:44:44,470 --> 00:44:40,520
research like lights on yeah yeah again

1089
00:44:46,270 --> 00:44:44,480
it was a very very human thing to do and

1090
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:46,280
this is one of the things that makes

1091
00:44:51,970 --> 00:44:48,170
science so interesting I think it's it's

1092
00:44:55,540 --> 00:44:51,980
a great idea and but it's conducted by

1093
00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:55,550
us poor fallible humans now Fiona what

1094
00:44:59,950 --> 00:44:57,290
can people look forward to when they

1095
00:45:02,830 --> 00:44:59,960
come to skeptic on 2019 to see your

1096
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:02,840
presentation at skeptical I'm going to

1097
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:05,690
be talking about a new project that my

1098
00:45:10,630 --> 00:45:07,370
research group and I are engaged in

1099
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:10,640
called the replicates project where the

1100
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:12,650
cats part of that stands for

1101
00:45:19,270 --> 00:45:15,530
collaborative assessments of trustworthy

1102
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:19,280
science hmm and it's a project that is a

1103
00:45:25,210 --> 00:45:21,890
it's a crowd-sourced project in a sense

1104
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:25,220
where we're asking researchers from any

1105
00:45:31,660 --> 00:45:28,450
relevant social science discipline there

1106
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:31,670
I'll tell you what those are at skeptic

1107
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:35,090
um to become involved in helping us

1108
00:45:40,810 --> 00:45:38,330
predict which studies in the published

1109
00:45:44,230 --> 00:45:40,820
literature would be likely to replicate

1110
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:44,240
should they be should those experiments

1111
00:45:50,980 --> 00:45:48,530
or studies be repeated uh-huh so in 2011

1112
00:45:53,020 --> 00:45:50,990
that's the date that's widely recognized

1113
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:53,030
as the start of this new episode in

1114
00:46:00,790 --> 00:45:56,450
science called the replication crisis it

1115
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:00,800
began really when large collaborations

1116
00:46:04,660 --> 00:46:03,170
of researchers around the world started

1117
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:04,670
engaging in

1118
00:46:11,260 --> 00:46:07,130
occasions of studies in the published

1119
00:46:14,140 --> 00:46:11,270
literature so redoing 50 experiments in

1120
00:46:16,859 --> 00:46:14,150
cancer biology or redoing a hundred

1121
00:46:19,870 --> 00:46:16,869
studies published in social psychology

1122
00:46:22,270 --> 00:46:19,880
it there have now been replication

1123
00:46:25,859 --> 00:46:22,280
studies in a range of different

1124
00:46:28,720 --> 00:46:25,869
disciplines medicine and psychology

1125
00:46:31,569 --> 00:46:28,730
economics even experimental philosophy

1126
00:46:35,109 --> 00:46:31,579
and and across all though the

1127
00:46:37,150 --> 00:46:35,119
replication rates vary on the whole the

1128
00:46:40,720 --> 00:46:37,160
results have been somewhat disappointing

1129
00:46:42,309 --> 00:46:40,730
we might not have expected every single

1130
00:46:44,890 --> 00:46:42,319
study in the published scientific

1131
00:46:47,589 --> 00:46:44,900
literature to replicate perfectly but we

1132
00:46:50,859 --> 00:46:47,599
certainly would have expected the rights

1133
00:46:53,620 --> 00:46:50,869
to be higher than about 40 or 50 percent

1134
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:53,630
which is where they seem to be falling a

1135
00:46:58,210 --> 00:46:55,970
lot of scientists since over the last

1136
00:47:00,970 --> 00:46:58,220
seven or eight years have been engaged

1137
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:00,980
in activities to improve the replication

1138
00:47:07,210 --> 00:47:04,970
rate in science but redoing all of these

1139
00:47:09,730 --> 00:47:07,220
studies is obviously very time consuming

1140
00:47:13,450 --> 00:47:09,740
takes a lot of resources a lot of money

1141
00:47:17,710 --> 00:47:13,460
and so now we're at a point where King

1142
00:47:19,660 --> 00:47:17,720
for other ways of detecting studies that

1143
00:47:21,819 --> 00:47:19,670
are likely to fail to replicate and

1144
00:47:24,299 --> 00:47:21,829
that's what the replicates project is

1145
00:47:27,130 --> 00:47:24,309
about so we're looking at whether

1146
00:47:29,349 --> 00:47:27,140
scientists in those areas researchers in

1147
00:47:32,380 --> 00:47:29,359
those areas can predict which studies

1148
00:47:34,660 --> 00:47:32,390
are likely to replicate or not and for

1149
00:47:36,579 --> 00:47:34,670
those who can we're looking at what

1150
00:47:39,430 --> 00:47:36,589
reasoning they're using to do that what

1151
00:47:41,589 --> 00:47:39,440
cues in heuristics they're relying on so

1152
00:47:43,839 --> 00:47:41,599
that's the that's the huge crowd source

1153
00:47:45,849 --> 00:47:43,849
project that I'll be talking about apps

1154
00:47:47,740 --> 00:47:45,859
get become well that sounds absolutely

1155
00:47:50,319 --> 00:47:47,750
fascinating for somebody like me who

1156
00:47:53,650 --> 00:47:50,329
skates along merrily on the on the

1157
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:53,660
surface of science on thin ice sometimes

1158
00:47:59,440 --> 00:47:56,770
I don't often get to hear about the

1159
00:48:01,450 --> 00:47:59,450
inner workings and in the vital work

1160
00:48:03,910 --> 00:48:01,460
like that well folks there is another

1161
00:48:06,250 --> 00:48:03,920
clue another hint for you and another

1162
00:48:08,530 --> 00:48:06,260
motivation to attend skeptic on in

1163
00:48:11,109 --> 00:48:08,540
Melbourne later on this year well

1164
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:11,119
professor Fiona fiddler thank you very

1165
00:48:14,780 --> 00:48:12,890
much for your time today and I look

1166
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:14,790
forward to seeing you in

1167
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:17,490
Thanks I'm look forward to it too

1168
00:48:39,970 --> 00:48:37,530
[Applause]

1169
00:48:41,829 --> 00:48:39,980
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1170
00:48:44,700 --> 00:48:41,839
zone on next week's show we're bringing

1171
00:48:47,589 --> 00:48:44,710
you part 1 of a continuing series of

1172
00:48:49,930 --> 00:48:47,599
readings by Tim Mendham the editor of

1173
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:49,940
the skeptic and the executive officer of

1174
00:48:56,980 --> 00:48:53,810
Australian skeptics uh and next week Tim

1175
00:49:01,300 --> 00:48:56,990
will be starting off with an article

1176
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:01,310
about free speech free speech which is a

1177
00:49:06,970 --> 00:49:04,130
pretty important issue worldwide I think

1178
00:49:10,510 --> 00:49:06,980
also on next week's show we hope to

1179
00:49:14,410 --> 00:49:10,520
bring you a report oh yes once again

1180
00:49:19,329 --> 00:49:14,420
let's come up mind/body wallet here in

1181
00:49:21,579 --> 00:49:19,339
Sydney always an adventure of course

1182
00:49:25,329 --> 00:49:21,589
what I mean is mind body spirit the

1183
00:49:28,930 --> 00:49:25,339
festival all the way you can see no end

1184
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:28,940
of woe and wonder and some talking about

1185
00:49:34,780 --> 00:49:31,490
shonky products some pretty interesting

1186
00:49:37,660 --> 00:49:34,790
things on display now it's only occurred

1187
00:49:41,050 --> 00:49:37,670
to me in the last little while in fact

1188
00:49:43,180 --> 00:49:41,060
since the skeptoid 13th birthday about a

1189
00:49:45,730 --> 00:49:43,190
week ago that the skeptic zone is

1190
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:45,740
actually 11 11 years old in fact it

1191
00:49:53,230 --> 00:49:48,770
turned 11 at the end of last month

1192
00:49:55,270 --> 00:49:53,240
so using skeptoid as an example I hope

1193
00:49:57,460 --> 00:49:55,280
and I asked and I request that everybody

1194
00:50:01,740 --> 00:49:57,470
who has enjoyed the skeptic zone for the

1195
00:50:05,710 --> 00:50:01,750
past 11 years might consider chipping in

1196
00:50:08,770 --> 00:50:05,720
$11 $11 in your particular currency or

1197
00:50:12,510 --> 00:50:08,780
11 pounds 11 Australian dollars 11

1198
00:50:16,900 --> 00:50:12,520
Canadian dollars 11 US dollars 11

1199
00:50:19,109 --> 00:50:16,910
rupaul's 11 yen whatever whatever which

1200
00:50:21,339 --> 00:50:19,119
may be you can do the conversion and

1201
00:50:25,690 --> 00:50:21,349
find something that's roughly equivalent

1202
00:50:27,700 --> 00:50:25,700
to eleven dollars Australian so if you

1203
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:27,710
don't regularly contribute with patreon

1204
00:50:34,359 --> 00:50:31,130
or PayPal head to the skeptic zone TV

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you that's the address used for the

1211
00:50:56,190 --> 00:50:53,470
skeptic zone for PayPal 11 years 11

1212
00:50:59,059 --> 00:50:56,200
years bringing you weekly science and

1213
00:51:02,670 --> 00:50:59,069
reason and fun nonsense and and

1214
00:51:04,740 --> 00:51:02,680
investigations reports interviews but

1215
00:51:11,670 --> 00:51:04,750
for this week this is Richard Saunders

1216
00:51:13,470 --> 00:51:11,680
signing off from Sydney Australia you've

1217
00:51:18,500 --> 00:51:13,480
been listening to the skeptic zone

1218
00:51:20,099 --> 00:51:18,510
podcast please visit our website at WWDC

1219
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1220
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:23,290
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1221
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1229
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expressed on the skeptic zone are not

1230
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